Greatra Mayana

Career & Employment Opportunities

To find work you love, don’t follow your passion | Benjamin Todd | [email protected]

Translator: Queenie Lee
Reviewer: Ivana Korom When I graduated from university, I didn’t know what career
I wanted to choose. I had a lot of interests, but which interest should I pursue
and try and turn into a job? So, back then, I was really
interested in martial arts. Here’s me. But I didn’t want
to turn that into a career. Here’s my face. (Laughter) I was really interested in,
and I was studying philosophy, but one of the philosophers
I most enjoyed reading – late at night, in my dorm room – recently said, “Philosophy is a bunch of empty ideas,” and there’s no job in philosophy, anyway. So that was out. Being a slightly weird kid, I was really interested
in investing and finance, and I had even taken
a portion of the small savings I had, and invested them into gold
when I was a teenager. I knew that following the finance root
would be a really well-paid career, but I was wondering, like, maybe I wouldn’t make
as much difference as I could in that, it wouldn’t help society, so in the end, it wouldn’t
really be that fulfilling. I was left with the question, “How could I choose a fulfilling career?” And, maybe many of you
have asked yourself the same question. I thought about this question, I realized I didn’t even know
how to go about choosing a career, and I, you know, read books,
I went to careers advisors, I just couldn’t really find
the information I really needed: what would I be good at in the end? What skills should I learn now? Which areas is there a great social need
where I can make a difference? These unanswered questions led me to, kind of, delay the decision
by a few years. Instead of actually settling on a career, I founded an organization
dedicated to researching the question of which career to choose. And this organization
is called “80000hours,” that’s the number of hours you have
in your working life, that’s a long time, so, it’s worth really
doing some serious research, and try to work out how best to use them. We help you do some of this research, and we publish all of our findings; it’s part of a free online careers guide: Here’s some of the team today, surrounded by laptops
and whiteboards, as normal. So, you might at this point
be thinking to yourself, “Well, you hardly look like
you’re above the legal age to drink, what could you tell me
about choosing a career?” Well, it’s true that one
of the main things we discovered is that we have a lot to learn. Choosing a career is a complex problem
and not enough serious research has been done into how best to do it. But we have spent the last three years doing research with academics
of University of Oxford, and most importantly, we’ve coached hundreds of people
on how to make real career decisions. All this research and thinking
has led us to the conclusion that careers advice today
focuses on the wrong thing. Throughout most of history people basically did
what their parents did. Some people in the 1980s thought, “The greed is good,” and they focused on making money. But our generation grew up
with some different careers advice, and that’s that you should
follow your passion. You can see that use of this phrase increased dramatically
from the mid-nineties. But today I think need to move
beyond “Follow your passion,” as the career advice to focus on, and instead of asking
what our own interests and passions are, we should be focusing much more on what we can do for other people,
and to make the world a better place. Ok, so let’s go back to my decision, how would “follow your passion”
apply to me? I think what “Follow your passion”
tells you to do is three things: the first is to identify
your greatest interests; second, find careers
that match those interests; thirdly, pursue those careers,
no matter what. Finding a fulfilling career is just a matter of having the courage
to pursue your passion. In my case, I was interested in martial arts
and philosophy, remember? So, which career should I pick? Any ideas? I should obviously become a Shaolin monk – Buddhism and martial arts, together. What’s the theory behind this advice? You get passion match, then you really enjoy your work,
you’re really motivated, so you’re more likely to be successful, and if you are successful
doing something you’re passionate about, then you have a fulfilling career. And, spelled out like that, this really does sound
like pretty reasonable advice, right? I can maybe get behind that. But let’s just think about it
in a bit more depth. Turns out if you follow your passion,
you’re probably going to fail. Why do I say that? Let’s look at the data. A survey of 500 Canadian students
found that their greatest passions were ice-hockey and dance. Ninety percent of them were passionate about sports, arts,
music, something like that. But if we look at census data we can see that only three percent of jobs
are in art, sport, and music. So it just has to be the case that even if only one in ten people
followed their passion, still, the majority would
fail to be successful. So this first step just doesn’t work. I think the second step
is also not reliable. In that, even if you match
your passion with your work, and you’re successful, you can stlll quite easily fail
to have a fulfilling career, that’s because you might not
find the work meaningful. This was a bit like me
deciding not to go into finance, I thought, well, I was interested in it, maybe I could be successful
but I wouldn’t make a difference, maybe it would still end up
not being fulfilling, so I think the second step
doesn’t work either. Now, at this point you might be thinking, “Sure, passion
isn’t the only thing that matters, if I follow my passion,
it doesn’t guarantee that I’ll succeed, but maybe at least makes me
more likely to succeed, and to have a fulfilling career.” As a career advice,
this is the best we can do. But I think that is wrong as well. Picture to yourself now,
the most assertive person you know, who’ s really passionate
about selling and persuading, and they’re really extroverted. Surely someone like that should go and become an advertising
accounts manager, like in Mad Men, or they should become a car salesman,
or something like that, something which involves selling,
being extroverted, and talking to people. Well, it turns out that would
be a really bad decision: analysis of a determined study showed that really passionate sales people
really persuasive, assertive types who went into those kinds of sales jobs actually ended up more likely
to burn out and in fact died younger than normal people who take those jobs. Following their passion
actually made them more likely to die. (Laughter) And more generally, researchers have tried
to show for decades that there’s a strong relationship
between interest match and how successful and happy
people end up in their work, but so far, they failed to show
a strong connection between the two. I think this isn’t because your interests
just don’t matter, but it’s just that when it comes
to real career decisions, your interests are just not
a decisive factor, other things matter much more, like what your skills are,
and what your mindset is. Indeed, we think our interests matter
a lot more than they do, because we really underestimate
how much they change: just think about your own interests
five or ten years ago, and how different they are from today. I mean, back then,
you’re probably this tall, and you’re probably interested
in completely different things. Five or ten years time, you will be interested
in totally different things again. All this means that your present interests are just not a solid basis
on which to chose a career. So, if we’re not going to focus
on interests, what should we focus on? If you’re not just going
to follow your passion, what should you do instead? If I had to sum up careers advice
as a single slogan, here’s what I would choose:
“Do what’s valuable.” By this I mean focus on getting good at something
that genuinely helps others, and makes the world a better place. That’s the secret to a fulfilling career. Now, obviously doing what’s valuable
is going to be better for the world, you’re going to do more good like that, but people have also thought for millennia that helping others is the secret
to be personally fulfilled and happy. I’ve just got a representative
couple of quotes here just read out the first one: “A man true wealth
is the good he does in this world.” Today we actually
have hard data to back this up. Professor of Psychology Martin Seligman
in his 2011 book: Flourish, aimed to sum up the last couple of decades
of empirical research into what really causes people
to be satisfied and happy in their lives. And two of the key ingredients
he identifies just are doing what’s valuable. The first of these is achievement,
or sometimes called mastery, and this means getting really
good at something, working hard and getting good
at something. The second is meaning,
also called purpose, and this means striving to do something
greater than just make yourself happy, so it means making
the world a better place. Put the two together, get good at something
it makes the world a better place, do what’s valuable. I think, doing what’s valuable has
lots of other personal benefits as well. For instance, even if you work in a charity,
the people who have the greatest impact, do the most valuable things, find it easier to raise fundings,
and therefore pay their bills, and that’s important, too. I have at least found
in my own experience, if you focus on helping others,
then lots of people want you to succeed, so it’s actually easier
to be successful as an altruist compared to just being in it for yourself. So, it now turns out that actually
the advice “Follow your passion,” just gets things backwards. Rather than start from what we happen
to be passionate about now and then hope that success
and a fulfilling career will follow, instead, it’s much more true to say that we should focus
on doing what’s valuable, and then that will lead to passion
and a fulfilling career. I’ve definitely found this
in my own experience. If when I was 16,
you had given me this careers test: “Would you like to give
career guidance to people?” I’d have clicked the “Hate it” button. I was pretty shy and into science, and the idea of giving careers advice
to people was not appealing at all. But now I spend all of my time
thinking about careers advice, and am absolutely obsessed
and fascinated by it. Focusing on doing what’s valuable has given me clear, concrete,
meaningful goals, and that’s made my life a lot better. There’s no more endless reflection on which of my interests
represents my true calling, which doesn’t exist anyway. So, how can you actually do
what’s valuable in your careers, what practical steps should you follow? This is what we spend most of our time trying to work out at 80000Hours, I’m just going to give you
a super-quick summary of three things we’d say that you can do. The first of these is to explore, learn what you can about the world, and test yourself out in different things. If you want to do what’s valuable, you have to discover that
out there in the world, you can’t figure it out just by thinking
about your own interests. Secondly, go after some skills,
and try and get good at them, these are skills
that are really in demand, and can be used in many different areas. I might pick computer programming
as an example for the next decade. This bit is where your passions
do come in, thinking about your passions does come in. Because what you’re passionate about now can give you clues about what you can get
really good at in the future, so that’s worth thinking about, but they’re not
the only thing that matters. And then when you get those skills, go and find the biggest,
most pressing social problems you can, and apply your skills to solving them. Don’t just pick a problem
that is important, try and find one that’s been unfairly
neglected by other people, because that’s where you’ll have
the greatest impact. And finally, don’t think
that in order to do what’s valuable, you have to become a doctor,
and personally go to Africa, and help people with your own two hands. Big social problems can be, and often are solved by research,
by developing new technology, by spreading big ideas in the arts. The key is to work out where your skills can fit in
to have the greatest impact. I think the idea that we should
focus on doing what’s valuable is actually really intuitive one. I want you now to imagine
that you are on your deathbed, and you are looking back
at your 80,000 hours career, rather than just about to start it, and picture to yourselves two ways,
you could have gone. In the first you say to yourself, “I was good at what I did,
I enjoyed what I did, I made lot of money,
now I have two houses, and a yacht, but what was it all for? ” In the second you say to yourself, “I absolutely worked my arse off
at a charity, and it often wasn’t easy, but through my efforts I was able to prevent the deaths
of 100 children due to malaria, but what was it all for?” The first scenario happens all the time, but the second scenario
is almost unimaginable, of course, that was a worthwhile career. Altruism is one thing you’ll never regret, if we really want to be fulfilled
in our own careers, we have to stop focusing so much
on our own interests, and instead, ask what we can do
for other people. Imagine a world in which
that was the thought on everyone’s minds. So, to find a work you love,
don’t just follow your passion, rather do what’s valuable. Explore, build skills,
solve big pressing problems. And from that, fulfillment and a passionate
career will emerge. You’ve got 80,000 hours in your career, don’t waste them, do what’s valuable. (Applause)

100 Replies to “To find work you love, don’t follow your passion | Benjamin Todd | [email protected]

  • It’s funny because he says that his passions are martial arts and philosophy but they are not really his passions; he may be passionate about them but they are not his true passions. His true passion is helping others and oddly enough, he is unable to recognize this and claims that what worked for him is an end all be all solution even though it is not. I, personally, would hate to work a job for no other reason than helping others and as selfish as that may sound anybody who works for McDonald’s or another such establishment knows what I’m talking about; it is when you have no passion for your job and earn little money but according to him your helping others so what does it matter that you have no passion for your job and earn nothing

  • Brother, your ideas may apply to a small portion of the youth. But you should have thought more before generalising. I don't think you get what passion actually is. All you base this talk on is on a 500 student survey. You cannot call that passion. Those are interests what that survey speaks. I suppose a small research would show you what passion is. What its streangth is.
    I totally disagree your openion on what following ones passion means. You know Steve Jobs right? From his garage, to being the founder of the greatest tech company in the world, what led him is called passion. Do you know Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam? One of the brilliant engineers India and the world has ever seen. From the streets of Tamil Nadu, he travelled to being the missile man of India, also the President of India. That is passion. There are many many examples. This is what passion is.

    You know who does the greatest helps for the world and the humanity? It is the farmers, people who clean the streets and the drainages, people working at cremation grounds…. I do not think their life is filled with happiness and glory in what they do to the society. The greatest contributers to our living actually live in the worst conditions. Sad to say and hear, but this is the reality we live on.
    So what should work for most people is to follow their passion, their dreams. And to paraphrase the words, by Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, that inspired me a lot:

    Dreams aren't what you see in your sleep, they are what that do not let you sleep.

  • Came here after doing a dozen of research on passion and strength just to be told to help others. I believe everyone should help others, But they shall help themselves first. You can't serve on an empty vessel.

  • I’m not following the map road which society has made for us. I decided to do my own road map and no one will stop me. Keep going and keep growing. Follow your passion

  • He sounds like he‘s pissed because he couldnt follow his dreams and now he‘s tellin everyone to not follow their dreams…lol

  • Quick question, hope to bring in some discussion. What is it really meant by "valuable"? Isn't it possible to find something valuable in literally every existing career? A doctor saves lifes, a game developer makes people distracted from their problems, an electritian makes people able to have a better life quality, a musician brings emotion and joy… Then if value can be found in everything, including your passion, why not to follow it?

  • It might not be the absolute truth, no one has it… But if following his advise you end up doing and seeing different things around the world and learning useful flexible skills, it sounds like a better alternative than following your passion blindly and one day you wake up with nothing in your hands. Nobody says you should lose interest in your passion ( technically it's impossible, being a passion ) but don't focus on it and probably you'll be allowed to hold on it until maybe one day you can actually live out of it if the chance arises. From my side I started my career for the passion of wine, so I've worked in my first restaurant because wine was involved ( but is not the ONLY thing that counts in restaurants ) but I had no particular interest in the restaurant business itself. After 12 years working in restaurants around the world ant two sommelier diplomas I don't care much about wine anymore, and traveling is super cool until you did it enough… What I am left with is a set of valuable restaurant skills that allows me to find a good job pretty easily in restaurants, wherever I want. That provides me with a roof, food in my fridge, and in the absence of other incoming passions, it's still an interesting job because I do like wine and social alchemy after all. Would have I studied for becoming a wine critic I would probably be sad by now. Would I have had a passion for football and played it for 20 years without getting to the top I would now be sitting in front of some slot machine at the bar.

  • FOLLOW your passion especially if u can earn money on it and make living.
    This is a very simple truth so don’t make a complex philosophy here 🙂

  • Ikigai. For those who don't know it, check this out it's the japenese concept of life purpose

  • I think this talk is prolly aimed at those who arent able to pursue their passion and is offering another way to identify other channels of passion to benefit other people, and thats great I guess? But I don't agree with not pursuing your passion. I believe that when you follow your passion even through the most unconventional route, it's still something, even if its not doing it full time or just a side hustle. As long as that one passion you have follows a plan to benefit your target audience, its still a win win. Why complicate it further? Just continue to follow it through! Heck, I'd go into sports and philosophy if I were Benjamin, even if it wasn't something that will give me income eventually.

    I am an aspiring music educator who didn't get to see that reality of my passion, but hey, I still am teaching a few students on the side even though it's not my main work. Passion exists not just in different elements, but different sizes too.

  • Saving this vid, so I can come back to this golden comment section – and hopefully one day share how follwing my passion worked out for me xD

  • But what if i am not the type of person to help other’s
    I mean there are people who love them self’s and want to do the things they love

  • A passion can become an interest and vice versa. It all depends with the level of expertise and ability to learn more about the said topic or area of specialization. Genuine personal interest and self love comes first before anything else, this young man should not get this twisted. The more you get to learn about something, you get to be passionate about. Simple basics…

  • Acts 20:34-36 
    King James Version (KJV)

    34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
    35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
    36 And when he had thus spoken, he kneeled down, and prayed with them all.

  • What a load of shite! Overextensive Altruism towards foreign cultures to the point of detriment of the native culture is destroying the Western World.

  • I think what he is trying to say is that follow your passion unless it is blocking other opportunities that you are better at.

  • I see a lot of people upset about this advice, but it worked for me.

    My greatest passion/hobby is playing video games. I love playing them, but I know that I'm not good enough to be a professional E-Sports player. I'm sure I could be one day if I really dedicated myself to it, but I wasn't passionate about living with my parents after high school, so I looked for more reasonable prospects.

    One day my brother mentioned joining the Army for 3 years to get a jump start. Make some money, pay for college, get out on our own. Sure why not? Fast forward 10 years later and I'm still in. Not only am I still in, I decided to become an officer. Never in my first 20 years of life could I have imagined myself being where I am today. An Army officer was never on my radar, but I found a lot of satisfaction in my work as I did it, so I kept going. I kept progressing, I kept getting better at my job. As opportunities presented themselves, I pursued them. I've learned that I don't regret not pursuing my greatest "passion", I regret when I let a real opportunity slip by that could've made my life better.

    You can find passion and fulfillment in any career as long as you find value in it. Figure out how you make a contribution and as long as you do make that contribution, you can find satisfaction in it. I still play video games in my free time and enjoy them, but it doesn't need to be my career for me to be happy.

  • The title is misleading, it should have said "don't just follow your passion but do what's valuable" quoted from the last minutes of his speech.

    I agree with making people happy will help you to be happy. However, I disagree with the absolute title "don't follow your passion". Sure following your passion may not make you happy, but doesn't mean not following your passion can make you happy.

  • This video is just appropriate for someone who does not have any passion of their life. If you have a real passion, everything you try sometimes make burn out but you will never regret it. You have a passion, your heart always leads you to your life purpose

  • I just wanted to raise my family from low level class at least upto middle level class. All I wanted is to make good money all from my hardworks then use the money to make my parents’ dreams come true. After I help them, I would want to help every street living people who suffers from hunger by giving them food supply to eat and a lesson that they can apply to their lives to become successful.


  • Not sure about this Ted Talk. I liked helping people so I went into nursing thinking it will be helpful and rewarding, eventually I quickly (handful years) hated it. 😂 And after doing that it made me avoid dealing with people. Went to follow my passions with computers. Happiest I've ever been.

  • People aren't all the same. Not everyone gets anything out of altruism or helping fields. Also, him trying to prove his point by asking how your interests have changed over 5-10yrs seems counterproductive because certainly for myself my interests have evolved and I have new interests I didn't before, but they are still linked because they are cohesive with who I am as a person. I still hold the same core values, no matter my changes. He thinks of passion as far less intense than it is in reality. Most people (myself included) likely don't even have something they feel so strongly about so as to call it a passion. Those who do should absolutely pursue it. They may have to acknowledge it may not be their job soon or ever but they shouldn't give up such an integral part of themselves because of a fear of failure.

  • Well, the comment section sure shows that he rattled a lot of cages!
    Not saying I agree with 100% of his points, but people need to hear this without shutting their minds in the first 1 minute of the vid.
    C’mon… We watch Ted talks to better ourselves, right? He’s giving out a lot of good pointers.

  • The most valuable is not necessarily good for man. Valuable is the key word here. Who is this kid listening to!

  • Hello, this is Benjamin from 20 years in the future. Hindsight is 20-20. PLEASE don't listen to young me.

  • This talk sounds very one dimensional. What you file to understand is lot of it depends on the personality like factors. You passion and interest sometimes formed based on your environment too. For eg: in my town elders consider a govt job s the ultimate. They consider low level clerical job much better than a high paying your interest based private job. A govt. Job was my passion till I left that town. Your passion and interest changes or evolve as you grow.

  • Following your passion can mean helping others

    I wish to make music the captivates the soul and takes the listener to another place

    I wish to make music people use to simple dance a little all the way to escaping from their problems and making life slightly easier

  • In my opinion, what thing you choose it depends but I see when you’ll succeed you say anything it’s always right and opposite, if you are not successful when you say something no one listen to you 😅😅😅

  • i find lot of people not accepting what is being said in this talk. At First i didn't read the comments and then halfway through the video i read the comments section and found it a lot more pessimistic. What he says is do whats valuable for you and others. And following your passion also means the same do whats valuable with your time for yourself and others. So i find what he is trying to say and what has already been said is pretty much the same. Although He could have articulated it better i don't find anything wrong about what he says unlike you guys in the comment section. If Anyone is reading this and feels the same i would be glad.

  • I was completely happy with what he said about cuz his story as mine. But after I read ppl comments their misunderstanding makes me confused 😐

  • The thing which is unfairly neglected means there's no company that is there to offer you a job to do it. Will you be doing it for free?

  • What if you don't have a passion?
    What if you think about life, and it makes you feel so hopeless that you just want to die?
    What then?

  • i think this may apply if you don't know what you're passionate about it. Like you should do something anyway so choose to help others, also if your type of succesful life is having a fulfilling job, or you're the altruist type. It definitely doesn't work for everyone so suit yourself with what works with you.

  • This young man saying definitely valuable advises! My applauses to him and his deep research! Good work, Benjamin!

  • So he picks himself as a bad reason.

    Useless philosophy and even his body is useless.

    Now he’s about to say to all people that they shouldn’t follow their passion because he tried and did not succed?

    I mean, wtf?

  • As someone who has done literally everything on the planet except follow my passion (except those joyous moments when I do!!! heehee), I can tell you from my finite but valid perspective that this message is most assuredly misleading. Follow your soul follow what speaks to you because THATs real. Let others do and think what they will and go on doing yours because we are all at where we are at and there are many paths to get to the same place. 💯

  • For those who criticize his reminder, the guy simply promotes value than self-interest. Following your dream job is not really bad, but in this time of falling morality and economy, we need to engage ourselves more in social reconstruction and charity.

  • Smart man. Speaking right to me. Thank you Ted talks. One day when I'm successful I will credit most of it to your talks. Great people with great ideas to share 🙌

  • Regret is bigger than failure.
    So, go for your dreams and follow your passions.
    Bukowski said: Find what you love and then let it kill you.
    Ignore this kid, he'll come around.
    You can expect another TED talk from him in 20 years when he'll accept how wrong he was to stop people from following their passions.

  • He actually touched the roots of success which are mostly ignored because of selfish motives for finding passion..

    Its indigestible for lot many people with rational mind but its true that in the service of other you will be successful.

    Real successful people are not behind money but change in the world which further results into money and fame..

    Look at most scientists lives and this concept will be understood..

    Like who agrees.

  • What if you're passionate about medicine or engineering? That would be ideal lol you're interested and passionate about something that will give back to the community but also will earn you a stable income.

  • I’m so confused about how I feel about this video. On one hand, it’s nice to hear to help others, and that it will give you satisfaction and meaning. However, I think to others who have dreams, this can be rather crushing. Sometimes being crushed is needed to think realistically, but on the other hand, it could keep a person from reaching self actualization. I think a person should just learn to trust themselves, heal the best they can, strive to be better and have the most honest perception they can…. and just be true to that. At the end of the day, there’s no magic formula to know what you are supposed to do in life.

  • This is a terrible video…that guy should have become a shaolin munk. (Watch video for reference…if you dare)

  • Nice chat. I was surprised that all of your discussion was of young people trying to discern their path. You do know others have been through this don't you? Why did you not interview bright people who were happily winding down their careers? If you were in an amusement park trying to decide to ride a roller coaster wouldn't you study the faces or query the people getting off of the ride? Perhaps I'm unique since I had loving grandparents who shared their journeys. You went from young people to those on their death beds with no point in between. Keep at it. You can't solve it on your own.

  • Come back when your 40, I believe you will wish you became a shoalin monk, then I think you will want to be one.

  • In short, passion is self directed. What we should do is focusing outward, helping people. Just help people, don't worry about making the world a better place.

  • I do agree you should do something that makes the world place better place and have also studied similar pychology , however personally I think the best thing you can do is follow your gut and do what you love. You don't really need to be told to be altruistic. Doing what you love and being altruistic are not mutually exclusive. Do what you love and the joy you feel will be passsed on. Im just scraping by teaching my passions art and music as well as practising. I didn't think I could do what I love but I can and be altruistic to. This kid makes some good points but following your own instincts and gut is the best thing if you know how to.

  • You are absolutely wrong bro to achieve what you love you must have to be Passionate for that and also to achieve the uncheivable with a can do attitude.

  • i do not care what everybody else in the commets says against this guy…he helped me at least ……finding a value in your work changes the reason for why you work…..but people have diffenet tastes and opinions and they might nt like his idea.but i totally agree with you …..thanks a lot man

  • Pretty sure “do what’s valuable” has been every high school and college guidance counselors advice for decades. But props to him for putting himself out there. Not easy. 👍🏻

  • There's the big calling card all = 0:00 "when I graduated from university" – the rest follows – I didn't have a job. If I could've graduated from university and not have a job since leaving high school then I might have a career talking motivational speeches to a generation that got shafted (the Millennials). The baby-boomers had it all – plenty jobs, no experience, no laws – they could make whatever for themselves. The millennials got shafted and they've been distracted by technology and trolling.

  • When I was a kindergarten kid, I was interested in chemistry and I wanted to be a scientist. Now, I am 25 years old and I am now more interested in studying physics and mathematics. Although my interests changed a litter bit, they are still science-related subjects, so his argument simply can't convince me.

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